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#1 northernbird

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 02:38 PM

hi everyone

i know im always on here asking for advice and one of these days hopefully ill be able tohelp u in some way but i need advice yet again

as u may know ive just taken on my role as preschool teacher after gaining my eyps. my room has already been set up with out me due to my transfer not happening as quickly as hoped.

i think ive asked before and have done reseacrh of my own to get a rough idea but im getting confused as to what to do now.

we have oxford reading tree resources in the room- pack of books some stage 1 with no words and some with simple sentences (not sure what stage this is)

should these be being used with 3-4 and half year olds????

im going to be using letters and sound as phonic prog

im new to all of this, from what i can interpret is stage 1 fits in quite well as its all about talking about the pictures in the book and so developing childrens speaking skills and becoming familiar with layout and handling of books,

what abput the other stage?
on the oxford reading tree website it has a section for ks1 and ks2 resources so this gives me the impression it is not for FS??

help please!!!! :o

#2 hali

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:25 PM

we sometimes use the pre reading stage and very occasionally stage one with our rising 5s the half term before they move up to aschool. The school they go to use this scheme and a list of what they covered is sent to they do not repeat. :lol:

BUT: we only use them if they know all thier phonics and are obviously ready :o

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#3 MARYS

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:43 PM

we use the stage one books (with no words or short sentences) when children know their sounds and the stage 1+ phoics books which are great.
only for the children in reception.
There are some new stage 1+ phonics books available from may and these look really good , we have ordered some today.
The stage 1+ songbirds are great because they can be sounded out.
One is called top cat and reads like I am top cat etc.

#4 northernbird

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 04:27 PM

marys u say only with reception

so would u suggest that these books shouldnt be used with my under 4s?

i just get worried and unsure when i try and research things and ity doesnt fit in with my ideas of what i should be doing

so i just need to focus on the letters and sounds and getting children familiar with sounds of letters

the ort books to me seem like alot of guess work and memory, rather then decoding words is this a true interpretation? as i have said i havnt really used them so am unsure of my thoughts, any clarity from the more experienced of you would be fantastic.

#5 bethie

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 05:52 PM

I introduce the oxford reading tree books to my children when they join me in Reception. Personally I wouldn't reccommend usig them with children before they are in year R. This may be different for nurseries attached to schools but we feed in from lots of pre-schools.

Children in my class seem to find it much easier starting school, following letters and sounds and then starting on reading books. I start them on some Oxford reading tree phonics books then I move them onto oxford reading tree books (our books are book banded in school) when they are confident and ready. I now have some children reading green books (with lots of stage 5 books) even though they hadn't 'read' any books before september.

I think using the books without pictures would be great though- lots of discussion etc of the pictures, story language would be fab.

I hope that makes sense. It's just my opinions! xx

#6 northernbird

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 06:52 PM

thanks

any more feelings and opinions would be very much appreciated.

i discussed my feelings on it with my nursery nurse today, stating the picture books are fine to use as they do link in with letters and sounds in that alot of speaking and listening is encouraged, but she still thinks we need to use the simple word books with our older children.

we can take children from 3 years until they go off to reception, after the chat we had she said but boy x needs to start on the word books as hes going to school in sept, he turned 4 in march, and she wants him to be familiar with some words before he goes.

if a child started in your reception class and couldnt "read" the high freq words in the ort books would the preschool they came from be looked down upon.

i can see were shes coming from in that she wants the child to be prepared but surely preparing a child with the necessary skills in speaking and listening is more important then ensuring they can read (or remember) words in familiar book!

help i just seem to go round in circles with what i should be doing!!!!!!!!! :lol: :o

#7 narnia

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 07:14 PM

I use the 'wordless' ORT books in my preschool, with the rising fives. They also take them home,to share with mum and/or dad and we find this a really good way of getting parents involved.we also find them to be a good source of discussion, looking at the pictures etc...............and they love spotting all the funny things going on
so take my hand, squeeze it tight, make some light out of the darkness............
http://www.marillion...isten/index.htm

and if you want a real treat:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI_OlG3FV5s

#8 Beau

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 07:15 PM

Can I just state for the record that I am not a teacher so this is my personal opinion only! A preschool setting is no place for formal teaching of reading. They need to be able to discriminate between all the different sounds in speech first and have plenty of practise at it before even beginning to read. Perhaps you should set her on preparing activities based on Letters and Sounds, as this would give the children better grounding before embarking on reading itself. Your setting is not there to 'prepare' children for school but is an important stage in itself.
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#9 womble

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 07:52 PM

I agree. I hav been a Reception teacher and am now a Nursery teacher. I would want the children to come to Reception class being able to hold a conversation, take themselves to the toilet, play socially with other children, be independent and confident amoung other things. Whether they could read or not would be here nor there and I would probably think what has this poor child missed out on while he was learning to read? Being able to recognise their names is helpful however. I think that the more real experience the child has the better so let him explore, investigate be run about and have fun. There will be lots of opportunities for reading at school. Of course foster a love of books and stories but they don't need to be Oxford Reading Tree.

#10 holly35

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 07:58 PM

Our advisory teacher told us something along the lines of Beau's comments above. We have regularly had parents wanting us to start teaching reading to their child, most of whom were not ready at all. We use the first activities in Letters and Sounds (without realising it actually) and have been praised for this by advisory teacher. She explained to our parents that as our children all go off to various schools we may teach them in one way and then they have to unlearn that to fit in with the new teacher in reception. She also stressed that many children in nursery/preschool are not ready for formal reading at all. For the odd one who is, and we have had them, including my son, we have supported parents and provided simple word books which were just ordinary picture stories rather than reading schemes. This also helps in that they have not then "done" the reading scheme books the school might use.

Unfortunately the school nursery in one of our local schools has been doing formal phonics work with the children before the reception class whihc has led possibly to us losing some children to that setting as parents were wary of their child being behind when they joined the other children in reception. As we feed many schools it is swings and roundabouts, but particularly annoying when the school itself has told us for many years that what they want in a reception age child is ability to sit and listen when appropriate, self help skills and possibly recognising their own name. They then go and provide every child with a picture and their name rather than just the name, and the children who do leave us for reception there are puzzled as to why they need a picture when they can clearly se it is their own name! But I digress - I would say no the ORT and yes to a variety of picture books, some with simple text that more able children could be encouraged to "read" if they are ready.

Sorry we are a preschool with children from 2 years to reception age.

#11 northernbird

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 06:22 PM

thank you thank you thank you

u have pretty much confimed what i have been thinking and feeling but i dont feel very confident in my abilities or knowledge on this area to put my point acorss.

i think also because i have also only just joined my unit with children and a memebr of staff already there and using this its harder to get her to get out of the routine and for me to come in and say actually we should do xyz, also shes had quite alot of pressure from parents wihch i dont think shes been confident to address AND shes worked with this age for longer then me and knows it so i think she may think she knows better!!!

i will stick to the pictureless books as i do feel they are good in developing speaking skills but will encourgae the parents to take home stroybooks too!!!!!

#12 Susan

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 07:13 PM

if a child started in your reception class and couldnt "read" the high freq words in the ort books would the preschool they came from be looked down upon.



Personally I have never come across this but if the child is ready, no. What reading scheme does the school that you feed into use?
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#13 bethie

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 07:51 PM

I don't expect children to start in september being able to read any of the high frequency words at all to be honest. It's a bonus if they do. I couldn'ta agree more with Woble and Beau's comments- there is so much more important stuff to do with language and speech. If they can't communicte properly then they will really struggle in everything! I'm glad you have got yourself more sorted.

#14 MARYS

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 08:28 PM

We dont start giving the ort books to the reception children untill they know their sounds and wouldnt dream of getting any of the nursery children to start with the reading scheme.
The stage one songbirds are phonic based cvc words which the children can sound out and blend.
The problem is some parents want their child to have books before they know their sounds and are able to blend.
We have some children 0n stage 3 ort books and can read fluently, and other children still on the books with no words and telling their own story.
We constantly reassure parents all the children are different and we work at the childs pace.
I do personally like the ort songbirds books and there are ones for each stage. :o
We do a lot of making up our own stories in small groups and the children all contribute and the teacher scribes the story onto a large sheet for the children and then they all sign the story, they really enjoy this :lol:

#15 dot

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 08:36 PM

Hi All

It has been great to see all these commments - :o the EYFS does have really good research into why we should be teaching letters and sounds and just focusing on Phase 1. It states that what we do now has consequences to children not in reception but when they are 11years old and become turned off to learning.

A classic example of this is a little boy in our setting whose parents are teaching him to read at home sitting down at the table, and now they are teaching him to blend. I have spoken about what we are doing with the parents, and I have given them the web address so they can download letters and sounds. As a consequence to this the little boy's behaviour at pre-school is that of feeling down, can't do things and aggresive with staff and children. This little boy is only 3, but will start school in September and parents obviously have huge expectations about what he should be achieving.

We do not have any books for formal reading for any children at pre-school, we are encouraging children to use well known stories with props, to act out the roles in the stories, read the books to themselves and then to their friends. We have observed the children using different tones in their voices as they portray different characters this week and are really doing well in their level of development as per the EYFS.

From reading the letters and sounds, once children move onto phase 2 learning to read appears to happen very quickly, as they begin to learn 4 letters per week - and again it states that the learning of the letters/sounds is carried out whilst they are playing.

We do though have a couple of children who are very proficient in phase 1, should I move them onto phase 2 - I feel that I am a pre-school practitioner and not a qualified teacher - it could be that if I teach phase 2 (having had no training) I could well do some damage ? :lol:

Dot
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#16 womble

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 09:13 PM

Hi Dot,
I think it's unlikely that you could do any damage as you are following the Letters and sounds program. Just b aware that these children might not be emotionally ready for more complex tasks. Make it light, fun and stop if they show any signs of losing interest. But again there's so much more you could be doing by giving the children lots of real experiences and talking to them to develop their vocabulary and convesation skills. Make reading intersting and fun. Have lots of really good quality fiction available and lots of well loved stories. Bring stories alive through drama etc.
Womble

#17 dot

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 08:24 AM

Hi Womble,

Thanks for the reply - I agree loads of fun activities and letters and sounds has loads in thanks Dot :o
Dot




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